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Post by Cajundemon11 on Oct 25, 2016 2:44:25 GMT
I honestly don't think about whether or not firing Stoker or Peve was the right move...In both cases it absolutely was. Stoker was 43-40 as the HC and the program was bleeding. Everyone talks about how he was let go after a 7-5 season in 2008, but the 3 seasons prior to that were all losing years. Peve was 14-30, so that was a no brainer, he just wasn't HC material and we were almost as bad as we are now. I start to think "what if" when we should've made other hires. This is 3 in a row that haven't panned out. Does anyone on here know that Willie Fritz actually applied for our job in 2008? Didn't even get an interview and look what he did for a mediocre sam houston program at the time. The money and salary for coaches is competitive within the conference and FCS so that excuse is absolute nonsense to me. Look at the salaries for some of the top programs and its not as if its 3X or 4X what we pay. You'd be surprised at how little places like North Dakota State or Eastern Washington or some of the other top 25 schools shell out.
Just as a disclaimer this is not a "anti-Greg Burke" message. I know the circumstances around Jay's hiring were unique and there were some administrative issues at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 and Im obviously just extremely frustrated with this situation. My only point in this is that this is the 3rd head coach that has not worked out..The one before them that did? Steve Roberts, yes he bolted after two years but that was the best NSU team we've had since '98. He won as a head coach prior to NSU. The three we've hired since?
Stoker:DC at Mcneese - no prior head coaching experience. 43-40 as our HC. Peveto:Special teams coordinator/DC at LSU - no prior head coaching experience. 14-30 as our HC. Thomas:DC at Missouri Southern -HC at Nicholls with a 27-35 record. 17-25 as our HC.
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Post by demon4life on Oct 25, 2016 2:59:33 GMT
OK now I totally disagree with you purple storm. What do you think Nicholls is paying their coaches? Look it up and you will see we can't use that for an excuse. I looked up South Dakota state after watching them almost beat TCU. They are paid almost the same as ours. I am really tired of that excuse...really tired of all the excuses.
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Post by James on Oct 25, 2016 13:11:02 GMT
I'm tired of all of the excuses. This is not about whether or not Coach Thomas is a good guy or a common guy. It's about him not getting the job done as a coach. He has not in the past and is not right now. What about the 108 or so football players? What about the 8000 plus students enrolled? What about the all the alumni? What about the community? It needs to be about them not Coach Thomas. They deserve better. The players and students are at NSU for a short time and should not be forced to accept a poorly coached losing team. Coach Thomas makes excuses and twists things around to avoid the obvious fact that he and many of his staff members are doing a terrible job coaching and managing this team. Not only have they not won a conference game they are at the bottom of every significant stat catagory. Things that need to be considered as you keep hearing the excuses are the true facts like we have less penalties than our opponents. Defensively we are at the bottom in sacks recorded, interceptions, giving up 3rd down conversions, and many other areas. Offensively we are at the bottom in total offense, scoring, getting 1st downs, converting on 3rd downs, and many more. The players do not do conditioning and do not lift weights during the season. No wonder we have so many injuries and run out of gas during the games. Players will lose over 5% of their strength, weight, speed, and explosiveness each month during the season if not training. This contributes to injuries and poor physical play. The young players are not put in the game because they are not being taught the plays, techniques, and schemes. And when they are forced in they are not prepared. The coaches only coach 2 deep so if you are 3rd or below you don't get practice or game time even if you have the talent to play. You just sit there and rust. There is no excuse for the way this team plays and is managed. Successful programs don't accept this. So what are we saying to everybody when we do? We just like losing,making excuses and watching our respect dwindle. We need to be better than this and raise our standards. Changes are needed.
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Post by NsudemonFan on Oct 26, 2016 1:07:45 GMT
I'm tired of all of the excuses. This is not about whether or not Coach Thomas is a good guy or a common guy. It's about him not getting the job done as a coach. He has not in the past and is not right now. What about the 108 or so football players? What about the 8000 plus students enrolled? What about the all the alumni? What about the community? It needs to be about them not Coach Thomas. They deserve better. The players and students are at NSU for a short time and should not be forced to accept a poorly coached losing team. Coach Thomas makes excuses and twists things around to avoid the obvious fact that he and many of his staff members are doing a terrible job coaching and managing this team. Not only have they not won a conference game they are at the bottom of every significant stat catagory. Things that need to be considered as you keep hearing the excuses are the true facts like we have less penalties than our opponents. Defensively we are at the bottom in sacks recorded, interceptions, giving up 3rd down conversions, and many other areas. Offensively we are at the bottom in total offense, scoring, getting 1st downs, converting on 3rd downs, and many more. The players do not do conditioning and do not lift weights during the season. No wonder we have so many injuries and run out of gas during the games. Players will lose over 5% of their strength, weight, speed, and explosiveness each month during the season if not training. This contributes to injuries and poor physical play. The young players are not put in the game because they are not being taught the plays, techniques, and schemes. And when they are forced in they are not prepared. The coaches only coach 2 deep so if you are 3rd or below you don't get practice or game time even if you have the talent to play. You just sit there and rust. There is no excuse for the way this team plays and is managed. Successful programs don't accept this. So what are we saying to everybody when we do? We just like losing,making excuses and watching our respect dwindle. We need to be better than this and raise our standards. Changes are needed. James, thank you. Finally someone said everything I've been seeing the past few years! I hope all the loyal supporters reading this thread take note of everything said, because it is all true. The post was in no way an attack on character, but a very accurate assessment of our teams leadership and management from the top. All this said, and these facts are out in the open clear as day, I have an extremely hard time understanding the blind loyalty to our current staff. Multiple staffers from the Peve years are STILL playing crucial rolls in this team. I can think of 4. Heck Thomas was a part of that, along with Lockett, Mangin, and Landoll. Both Daye and Thomas have had horrendous records at every stop they have made. Point blank period. Again, our administration SHOULD be questioned for thinking this would have turned out any different. If they don't handle this obvious situation then you've got to wonder how much they actually care. Clearly our football staff cares, but that doesn't in any way make them competent. The jury is still out in my opinion on our admin leadership. Just my two cents and Fork 'Em Demons.
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Oct 26, 2016 4:47:06 GMT
Those were two very solid and spot on posts.
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Post by NSU2003 on Oct 27, 2016 11:56:32 GMT
Stoker:DC at Mcneese - no prior head coaching experience. 43-40 as our HC. Peveto:Special teams coordinator/DC at LSU - no prior head coaching experience. 14-30 as our HC. Thomas:DC at Missouri Southern -HC at Nicholls with a 27-35 record. 17-25 as our HC. These stats shed a lot of light on the current situation. We've consistently hired coaches without ANY HC experience that looked good on paper and got glowing reviews from other people. Nicholls turning their program around almost over night is another example of you don't need a coffer full of sweaty dollars to have a competitive team. I was guilty of using the "money" or "small town" excuse, too.
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Post by 88demon62 on Oct 28, 2016 2:52:42 GMT
Head coaching is part politician, salesman and manager. Coach Thomas is missing salesman experience because recruiting defensive talent is lacking and bringing in JUCO and other transfers brings no long term unity. Coach peve had no management experience and those games were lost late (I like to call the miles syndrome). Coach Stoker lacked politician experience and couldn't or wouldn't cooperate with university administrators or else he might still be there. Start recruiting football players, stop recruiting from a stat sheet and for all of the demons that love this program start having full contact practices at least once a week so this team can grow a pair! Jay Thomas is a good guy..... and he needs to go. Next head coach needs to be a former demon that bleeds purple, recruit from his heart and can light a fire under the team. There is enough talent in this state and east Texas to put a formidable team on the field. When or if we get the right coach money won't be an issue, a good coach mixed with being a demon and we might have a chance to cheer for more victories that we are getting right now.
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Oct 28, 2016 5:05:13 GMT
I respectfully disagree on one thing. In all honesty I don't give two shits if he's a "former demon" or bleeds purple or has even ever heard of our school before applying for the job. All the talk we've had in the past about knowing louisiana/east texas and having roots in the state is so overblown in my opinon. Has he won as a head coach? Thats what I want to know. The south and the country for that matter have young energetic head coaches at the d2 and d3 level with winning records who play exciting football eager to take on a new challenge. And you can't tell me these guys don't want their shot at the power 5 level one day. Well let them use us for a stepping stone. I have zero problem with a coach in their late 30s/early 40s who gives us 4 years of fun and exciting football to watch and then bolts for a FBS job.
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Post by James on Oct 28, 2016 13:58:59 GMT
Defensive stats that speak volumes: 2013 team finished 2nd in total defense. The lowest category for the 2013 defense was 6th and that was in scoring defense. Boone was the DC. 2014 defense finished 5th in total defense. The lowest category was 7th. Lucas was the DC. 2015 defense finished 11th in total defense and 9th, 10th, and 11th in almost every other category. Daye was the DC. 2016 defense is 10th in total defense and at the bottom in every category, but scoring defense in which they are 6th. Daye is the DC. What burns me up the most is some of the coaches' sideline demeanor. During the Mcneese game for example one particular coach would go get a squirt bottle after the defensive stops and stand there and drink as the players jogged off the field right past him. He did not speak, coach, congratulate, or encourage them. He is not the only coach on the sideline that appears to be pouting, confused, or checked out. Players can't get better without coaching and teaching. Changes are needed!
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Post by 88demon62 on Oct 28, 2016 14:49:55 GMT
I respectfully disagree on one thing. In all honesty I don't give two shits if he's a "former demon" or bleeds purple or has even ever heard of our school before applying for the job. All the talk we've had in the past about knowing louisiana/east texas and having roots in the state is so overblown in my opinon. Has he won as a head coach? Thats what I want to know. The south and the country for that matter have young energetic head coaches at the d2 and d3 level with winning records who play exciting football eager to take on a new challenge. And you can't tell me these guys don't want their shot at the power 5 level one day. Well let them use us for a stepping stone. I have zero problem with a coach in their late 30s/early 40s who gives us 4 years of fun and exciting football to watch and then bolts for a FBS job.
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Post by 88demon62 on Oct 28, 2016 15:12:33 GMT
Recruiting is the lifeblood of a college football program and a coach using NSU as a stepping stone should concern you, it concerns me to were I will give a lot more than 2 shits if he has heard about us or not. Get someone that doesn't know the area and you get what we got now, mediocrity. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and someone with more than a passing interest is what we need. Tim Rebowe is only in his 2nd year at Nichols and the jury is still out on him but, I can tell you this, he knows the recruiting landscape in Louisiana and is and will recruit circles around jay Thomas. Change is needed, I just think it needs to be someone that has ties to the university beyond a paycheck and no passion. This team is a direct reflection on the current staff.
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Oct 28, 2016 19:36:17 GMT
We've hired 3 straight guys who were "Louisiana guys" and its gotten us in the bottom half of the conference standings every year! Recruiting is one thing, but we are getting outcoached, outschemed and out adjusted in every single game. If a guy is a winner then obviously he can recruit, coach kids and gameplan. I don't give a crap what part of the country he is from. This is the most overrated thing and we discuss it every single time we have a coaching change. Louisiana people are so transfixed with this and I don't get it, like a recruit in the state won't listen to a HC who's from another area of the country. Kids want to play, and they want to win.
The harsh reality of college football is every school except for maybe 5 or 6 destination jobs in FBS are stepping stone schools. Thats a fact, and the sooner we as a fanbase and administration understand that a successful coach will take a job at a higher profile and higher paying position school when offered, then we will always be where we are now. Last fcking place.
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Oct 28, 2016 19:39:12 GMT
The tone of that message was argumentative and its not meant to be, so i apologize. The frustration from this season just spills into these posts and I get carried away.
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Post by NSUPurple on Oct 28, 2016 21:48:06 GMT
Everyone has their opinion and there have been some good arguments made here. Our problems started when Roberts left after only two years and took almost the entire staff with him. We have had some good assistants since then, many did not stay long for whatever reason. We have not had the top to bottom quality in a staff since that time. Maybe that is the reason we have not signed the quality players we were accustomed to prior to that.
If and when the time comes to hire a new coach, would it be possible to structure a contract so that if he left in less than four years there would be a buyout clause to protect us? Or, would that eliminate too many potential candidates? Anything less than four years kills any stability in a program.
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Post by 88demon62 on Oct 28, 2016 22:03:35 GMT
The tone of that message was argumentative and its not meant to be, so i apologize. The frustration from this season just spills into these posts and I get carried away. Season sucks no doubt, we are just at opposite ends of philosophy on how to turn it around. Thomas and Peveto are not Louisiana guys, and Stoker started to recruit thugs toward the end of his era. Peveto recruited from a stat sheet and Thomas can't recruit at all. Coaching staff holdovers from previous head coaches is not a good start for the next head coach. Common denominator in the rate of success of the past 3 coaches is the AD. I'll be the first to eat crow if your way produces success but, I don't think head coaching changes produce long term success and thus attract real football players to Natchitoches.
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