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Post by NSCDemon on Sept 28, 2015 19:13:53 GMT
If we think after what we clearly see and not with our hearts, we will acknowledge that while he is a good person, Jay Thomas is not a great head football coach. He had already been fired as a head coach by an in-state SLC school before we got him. At Northwestern State, he’s taken a mediocre football program and made it worse. He’s a nice guy, but he chose this profession, and getting fired is the deal they accept when coaches go into it.
Jay is not moving us forward. We had over 10,000 loyal supporters in a hot Turpin Stadium Saturday, even after an 0-3 start, and they were rewarded with a product on the field that was simply not prepared to play FCS football. When your coach is not engaged on the sideline and his players are not prepared on the field, it’s time to move on. Jay’s got to go and I wouldn’t even wait for the season to be over. If we get to the end of October and we haven’t won more than two games, he should be let go then and the search should start immediately so that we have our pick of good candidates before other jobs are filled and so our new coach and his staff are in place in time to recruit.
Our last three head coaches have all been NSU-retreads. It’s time for something new; someone with no ties to the University. For this hire, I would propose the following:
1. Contact former football players and in personal visits, group visits, and personal outreach, raise a minimum of $300,000 to guarantee an additional $50,000 (for example) per year for three years beyond what our current HC’s salary is, and an additional $25,000 (for example) per year for each of the coordinators. The former players would have to know that their money doesn’t buy them influence in who is chosen, but that they will be kept in the loop on the process. Start that outreach today. We need the financial commitments by Sunday, November 1.
2. Begin the due diligence immediately for a young, up-and-coming HC with a good staff at his current school and who has been successful in the DII or DIII arena. No high school coaches, no older guys playing out the string. We don’t need former players, former coaches, or someone’s brother-in-law. We don’t need people who are hard to fire if they don’t work out, because this always pisses off some constituency and we lose financial supporters (see Peveto, Bradley Dale and Stoker, Scott). We need someone with no ties to the university and who has his own staff in place at the school where he currently is and who wants to move up and then beyond. We have had NO coaching staff continuity since Steve Roberts’ tenure and Roberts’ was simply smart enough to keep the core of Sam Goodwin’s staff. Our staff turnover is horrible and continuity is key. The best way to have continuity is to hire someone else’s up-and-comer who has his own staff and pay them to stay for three years before moving up to the next level if they are successful here. We don’t need another former assistant coach-turned-head coach scrambling to assemble a staff. We need a good young head coach with a good young staff in place and let them go to work.
3. Trust the AD. Working with a skeleton budget and little support from the state, men’s and women’s sports at NSU have a remarkable record of achievement under this AD’s tenure. Football has been the outlier, but that is where our competitors have been able to throw the most financial resources. If we can get former players to invest back in their program (without dictating terms) and if we can find that next up-and-coming coach (not a sure thing, but the retreads haven’t been effective either), then we may get “our” program back to competitiveness. And maybe, just maybe, we’re still holding out hope for a playoff run in late October, instead of writing off a season before September ends.
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Post by Footballfan on Sept 28, 2015 21:19:36 GMT
Coach Thomas was hired in December 2012. He has only had 2 recruiting classes. 85% of his starters are players that he inherited from the previous coaching staff. It takes at least 3 years before a coach starts to get results from his recruits. There are coaches all across the country being judged while using someone else's recruits. There is a reason that the previous coach was let go. Maybe it was because he didn't bring in good enough talent to be developed. Recruits have to be developed into good football players. Most do not arrive on campus ready to compete at a college level. It's a process.
Right now I see some upper class-men with pathetic attitudes. No leadership from them at all. It seems that most of the leaders from last years team graduated. I see players not doing their assignments, ignoring the coaches on the sidelines, and even making faces at the coaches and talking bad about them when they turn their backs and walk away. Most of these players are juniors and seniors. They are young adults that most likely feel that they have been done wrong by the new coaches. They know that they aren't going to get many opportunities if they can't get on the field and produce immediately. They are slowly becoming irrelevant to the program. They basically have two choices. Be supportive and do the best they can with their roles, or become a bad distraction and bring the team down.
I know all of the coaches on the staff and most of the players. The coaches are good quality men that work extremely hard. They have made mistakes this season. Some of the mistakes have left me shaking my head. Coach Thomas is an easy target because he is stoic and not very enthusiastic. This may be an issue with some of the kids that want a "players coach".
Take a second and think about the older players that I referred to earlier. Most will never play after this year. Did they put the time and work in this past spring and summer to be a dominant player this season, or were they complacent expecting everything to be given to them because they are upper class-men. Those that fit in the later scenario are causing conflict right now. They are poison that is bringing the team down. They need to enjoy their final season and be grateful for the experience and education that they received free by getting to play a game in college.
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Post by purplestorm on Sept 28, 2015 22:11:17 GMT
As upset as I am w this year, Jay took Nicholls to the playoffs and was only fired because of major differences between him and the leadership. Jay is a good coach and I am not sure what is going on right now, but he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. However, if or when he does leave, I agree that we need to hire an outsider.
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Sept 28, 2015 22:13:29 GMT
Coach Thomas was hired in December 2012. He has only had 2 recruiting classes. 85% of his starters are players that he inherited from the previous coaching staff. It takes at least 3 years before a coach starts to get results from his recruits. There are coaches all across the country being judged while using someone else's recruits. There is a reason that the previous coach was let go. Maybe it was because he didn't bring in good enough talent to be developed. Recruits have to be developed into good football players. Most do not arrive on campus ready to compete at a college level. It's a process. Right now I see some upper class-men with pathetic attitudes. No leadership from them at all. It seems that most of the leaders from last years team graduated. I see players not doing their assignments, ignoring the coaches on the sidelines, and even making faces at the coaches and talking bad about them when they turn their backs and walk away. Most of these players are juniors and seniors. They are young adults that most likely feel that they have been done wrong by the new coaches. They know that they aren't going to get many opportunities if they can't get on the field and produce immediately. They are slowly becoming irrelevant to the program. They basically have two choices. Be supportive and do the best they can with their roles, or become a bad distraction and bring the team down. I know all of the coaches on the staff and most of the players. The coaches are good quality men that work extremely hard. They have made mistakes this season. Some of the mistakes have left me shaking my head. Coach Thomas is an easy target because he is stoic and not very enthusiastic. This may be an issue with some of the kids that want a "players coach". Take a second and think about the older players that I referred to earlier. Most will never play after this year. Did they put the time and work in this past spring and summer to be a dominant player this season, or were they complacent expecting everything to be given to them because they are upper class-men. Those that fit in the later scenario are causing conflict right now. They are poison that is bringing the team down. They need to enjoy their final season and be grateful for the experience and education that they received free by getting to play a game in college. This is tough and I hate that we have to talk about someone's livelihood in this way. Jay is a solid guy and up until about 4 weeks ago we we were all singing his praises. I can't disagree with anything you've said here. We keep hiring retreads and I am with you in saying that a young successful coaching staff with a winning track record and a clean slate would be the way to go both when Stoker and then when Peve were fired but Greg decided to go a different direction. There will have to be some staff shake up after this season. No doubt about it, hiring a good friend in Darryl Daye will prove to be a mistake because he will not let him go and it may cost Jay himself his job. Our defense looks incredibly unprepared, misaligned, and out schemed on pretty much every possession. Adjustments are not being made. Busted assignments and total confusion in the secondary seem to be happening way too often. This qb situation really has me questioning Jay's ability to make decisions and has frustrated everyone and now our offense and locker room are in a complete state of disarray and we have no one stepping up as leaders. I'm not going to pretend to know more than I do, but the start of this season has been disastrous and this will not taken lightly by the president. |
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Post by footballfan on Sept 28, 2015 22:48:36 GMT
The defense is terrible and probably can't get any worse. Coach Lucas leaving was a big set back. Coach Lucas told me several times that they don't have the right personal to run the defense that they run. That's why they signed so many defensive players this year. It's a process. The right players have to be signed and developed. Coaches at Texas and Arkansas are in the same boat. They are having trouble putting in their systems with their current players.
Yes it's frustrating to lose. Especially the way we are losing. We are justified to be upset and disappointed, but we may need to give the process a chance to work. We need to support the players that are working hard and learning from this. They are the program's future and may just bring us a championship in a couple of years.
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Post by purplestorm on Sept 28, 2015 23:30:44 GMT
Let's think about this and place our emotions aside. We gave up 88 points on defense last year to SLU and UCA and we thought we had a pretty good football team. This year, we've given up 83 points to the same two teams. Now, given, we were on the road last year and at home this year. Conversely, we scored 57 points against these two teams last year and only 41 points this year. So, is it our defense or our offense? I mean, Jay is responsible for both, but I'm not sure our defense was THAT much better last year than it is this year. Especially, given we had two guys make NFL rosters from last year's team and we have a bunch of puppies and transfers this year. I think our problems are many, but one of the biggest is whoever set our schedule up. They should be castigated for it. If we had to play this same schedule last year, we would have likely been only 1-3 instead of 0-4. Now, in saying all this ... if we go over to San Antonio and lose to UIW, then we need to have a serious discussion about what's truly going on with the program. It's not Chicken Little time just yet. I am as disappointed and upset as anyone and I do think Jay needs to be reminded that this kind of play is unacceptable, but to go from thinking he's a great coach after beating LaTech last year to wanting to fire him this year is a bit premature and maybe even immature.
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Post by Player Advocate on Sept 28, 2015 23:48:15 GMT
Hey "FOOTBALLFAN GUEST" lay off the players. Unless you have walked the proverbial mile in their shoes you have no right to say anything about them. You must not know the same juniors and seniors I know because the ones I know, including my son, say the team is down but they are sticking together. Obviously you never played college ball because if you did you wouldn't even consider criticizing the players. These are young men living out their dreams and playing a game meant to be played by boys for your entertainment. I assure you these boys are working their butts off. It is difficult for players to step up and be leaders when they are not given the opportunity. If you know many players and the coaches, as you say do, you understand the comment I just made and no explanation is needed. To everyone on this board, chill! Let the coaches do their jobs without having to look around to see who wants their heads on a platter. I doubt anyone is sending your bosses emails saying you should be fired. Last but not least anyone who believes these players are getting a free education never went to a FCS school on a football scholarship!
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Sept 29, 2015 5:53:32 GMT
Hey "FOOTBALLFAN GUEST" lay off the players. Unless you have walked the proverbial mile in their shoes you have no right to say anything about them. You must not know the same juniors and seniors I know because the ones I know, including my son, say the team is down but they are sticking together. Obviously you never played college ball because if you did you wouldn't even consider criticizing the players. These are young men living out their dreams and playing a game meant to be played by boys for your entertainment. I assure you these boys are working their butts off. It is difficult for players to step up and be leaders when they are not given the opportunity. If you know many players and the coaches, as you say do, you understand the comment I just made and no explanation is needed. To everyone on this board, chill! Let the coaches do their jobs without having to look around to see who wants their heads on a platter. I doubt anyone is sending your bosses emails saying you should be fired. Last but not least anyone who believes these players are getting a free education never went to a FCS school on a football scholarship! Sigh…I had a feeling this is where this thread was headed. Well first of all… ..please do not tell us to "chill" many of us on here have been pouring our time, and a hell of lot of our resources into this program and expecting more than 1 winning season in the past 10 years is not outside the boundary of reasonable expectations. We as alumni and FORMER players are very right to be upset with the way this season has started after having to hear year after year that we are so close to turning this thing around. When its very obvious we have regressed. Your son's efforts are appreciated and the players effort is not in question, but as we have stated there have been some head scratching decisions made by the staff that we have every right to be upset about. This is an open forum with people who care deeply about Northwestern State athletics, and I care too much for the program and the university to "chill" or be okay when it comes to what happened at Turpin Stadium last saturday.
And lastly if I don't perform at my job I get fired. That's the world we live in, it just happens that Jay Thomas's job and performance are in a more public setting. Thats the world of college coaching and he chose to pursue that profession, no one here is questioning his character, but I sure as hell will get fired if I don't meet my numbers.
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Sept 29, 2015 6:06:52 GMT
Let's think about this and place our emotions aside. We gave up 88 points on defense last year to SLU and UCA and we thought we had a pretty good football team. This year, we've given up 83 points to the same two teams. Now, given, we were on the road last year and at home this year. Conversely, we scored 57 points against these two teams last year and only 41 points this year. So, is it our defense or our offense? I mean, Jay is responsible for both, but I'm not sure our defense was THAT much better last year than it is this year. Especially, given we had two guys make NFL rosters from last year's team and we have a bunch of puppies and transfers this year. I think our problems are many, but one of the biggest is whoever set our schedule up. They should be castigated for it. If we had to play this same schedule last year, we would have likely been only 1-3 instead of 0-4. Now, in saying all this ... if we go over to San Antonio and lose to UIW, then we need to have a serious discussion about what's truly going on with the program. It's not Chicken Little time just yet. I am as disappointed and upset as anyone and I do think Jay needs to be reminded that this kind of play is unacceptable, but to go from thinking he's a great coach after beating LaTech last year to wanting to fire him this year is a bit premature and maybe even immature. I agree with you to an extent on the defense, but honestly I don't care if we field a team of 11 true freshmen 8.7 yards per play and 543 a game is something I cannot accept. That goes beyond personnel especially considering that we have some good players on defense, that speaks to scheme, not being in position, and getting out coached. The problem isn't effort. |
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Post by NSU2003 on Sept 29, 2015 11:48:50 GMT
Anyone else see the irony in the coaches in the past that interviewed for our opening and we passed on? They're now at UCA and SLU...
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Post by TrackDemon on Sept 29, 2015 12:57:25 GMT
I like Coach Thomas and I want him to succeed. With that said, we have been blown out in two straight conferences games which isn't acceptable. We haven't been competitive this year, which also isn't acceptable. I'll give a pass on Miss State, but there is no reason we shouldn't be competitive with SLU, ULL and UCA. I'm willing to see how this plays out. With that said, if we can't get this turned around by the end of the year, changes need to be made. Simply no excuse for us to get blown out in conference play. Hey "FOOTBALLFAN GUEST" lay off the players. Unless you have walked the proverbial mile in their shoes you have no right to say anything about them. You must not know the same juniors and seniors I know because the ones I know, including my son, say the team is down but they are sticking together. Obviously you never played college ball because if you did you wouldn't even consider criticizing the players. These are young men living out their dreams and playing a game meant to be played by boys for your entertainment. I can speak here on this. I have walked a mile in their shoes, albeit a different sport. College athletics isn't easy and even "free rides" aren't really free. I know this first hand. I've seen my own coaches criticized for our performances. I also know some of the players personally and the ones I know are upstanding young men. Everyone on here respects the players and coaches and the amount of work they put into what they do. At the end of the day while they do entertain us there is still the reality that college sports is a business. While none of us want anyone to lose their jobs it is the unfortunate reality that unless the teams perform eventually someone will lose their jobs. Very simple, without results you don't put fans in the seats and without fans you lose a lot of money. Please come back to this board. We all appreciate your opinion and perspective on things even if we may not always agree with you. Best advice I can give you is to not take this personally. We are all passionate about NSU and care deeply about this school. We want NSU to succeed, even if it involved making hard choices (such as someone getting fired). A while back a mom of an in-state head coach got very offended because people were calling out her son. His teams were quite dirty and people on the old board remarked about this (the camera caught some of his players spitting on our guys on multiple occasions). She took the very valid criticism very personally. I ask you to please not be like her and please do not go that route. Join in our discussions and feel free to disagree but please do not call out anyone on this board. It dawned on me as well. fork Em |
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Post by Cajundemon11 on Sept 29, 2015 14:04:30 GMT
Anyone else see the irony in the coaches in the past that interviewed for our opening and we passed on? They're now at UCA and SLU… We wanted Campbell and he was offered the job, only after meeting with Webb did he decline the position. |
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Post by 58FLash on Oct 1, 2015 2:25:02 GMT
Just remember...great players make great coaches. There are none...Maybe 1. Until players can be recruited....this won't happen.
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Post by NSU2003 on Oct 1, 2015 11:43:32 GMT
Then stop telling us how great our recruits are...
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Post by purplestorm on Oct 1, 2015 17:52:26 GMT
No good players? Is that why about five or six will get looks from the NFL this year? Eagan, Moore and Murphy could stick. We have plenty of talent to win. It's something else. Coaching? Almost the same coaching staff as last year. Leadership? We lost a lot of talent from last year's team. I'd say we're suffering a combination of ill-timed issues. The only game we haven't done well is UCA. We played hard against SLU and were in it until the end. We could have done better against ULL, but not against Miss State. In summation, something is wrong, but I am not sure it's on any one side or area. Just a multitude of symptoms with no identified sickness.
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